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  1. #1
    Eagle
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    May 2008
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    Endless Mountains of Pa
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    Gun Dog - Parting Shots by Joe Arnette - Something to definitely think about!

    Gentlemen,
    Looking thru the latest issue of Gun Dog Magazine I like to read the Parting Shots article on the last page, because it usually gives a hunter something to think about, especially in these modern times. As usual Joe Arnette gives the reader just that, with his latest offering. Joe has been a decent hunter/writer for many years, and I kind of like his offerings. His latest offering A LOSS BEYOND MEASURE makes an old conservative hunter like myself think about our disappearing hunting habitat. I definitely agreed with his assessment "Where is it written that the "good life" is worth the loss of a near-perfect wild place? In his story one of his best hunting coverts is taken away by development, something that today is happening more and more often. While I agree that to men like Joe and myself this loss of hunting habitat is devastating, Joe however actually misses the bigger picture. Joe makes a great case about the devastating loss of his prime covert. However what his article also pointed out, strictly by accident, is that Joe like many other hunters, has hunted someone else's property, for many many years, freely enjoying another man private property, to the fullest extent possible. Now I am both an avid Bird hunter and Private Property owner. I look at this situation probably in a little different manner than Joe. Sure Joe believes he lost one of his prime bird hurting coverts, however it was not really his at all. Maybe Joe Arnette should have offered to purchase this near perfect wild place from the owner, to safe guard it from development. The owner may have turned him down, then again maybe Joe would now own this beautiful covert, and it would truly be his to hunt and pay the taxes on forever.

    RGD/Dave
    Never worry about what others believe, walk in the way of the Lord.

  2. #2
    I'll have to read the column...not sure if the issue is loss/change of habitat or loss of access....or both.
    Do not forget pumpkin!

  3. #3
    Eagle
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    May 2008
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    Endless Mountains of Pa
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    thornton,
    Loss of habitat for hunting thru owner development.
    RGD/Dave
    Never worry about what others believe, walk in the way of the Lord.

  4. #4
    Oh...ok.
    Thanks...saved me from buying Gun Dog.

    Anyway, many of us have been there to some degree.
    Worse, to me, is loss of once open corporate acreage in the Appalachians thru the spectre of the Texas Leasing Model.
    Do not forget pumpkin!

  5. #5
    Leasing for deer hunting (same land often offers good turkey hunting) has grown significantly in Iowa. That's because deer hunters are willing to pay pretty big bucks for access to good private land and a chance at a trophy buck. But it's never been much of a problem in Iowa where bird hunting is concerned, mainly because of a long-standing ruling by the Iowa attorney general.

    When the Conservation Reserve Program started, in 1985, landowners were informed that there were only two ways they could derive income off their property: the CRP payment they received from Washington, and leases or fees charged for "recreational trespass" (hunting, fishing, etc). At which point the office of the state AG reminded them that if they were going to collect money from hunters, then they'd better make sure their liability insurance covered more than just the agricultural use of their property. Because farms in Iowa aren't large (in comparison with states to our west), they can only produce so many pheasants. And bird hunters aren't inclined to pay anything like the big bucks that deer hunters pay for access. That was true even back when Iowa was, more years than not, the #1 pheasant state in the nation. Farmers didn't want to literally bet the farm for what amounted to Christmas present money. That on top of the fact that the state has a long tradition of allowing hunting access for free in response to a polite request from the hunter(s) in question. And of course it's even less of a threat now, with our pheasant numbers only a fraction of what they were not all that long ago.

  6. #6
    Eagle
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    May 2008
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    Larry,
    No doubt about it each state has it's own laws as to hunting private land, with or without permission. Here in Pa once you purchase a Pa Hunting License for that current year, and hunt on anybodies private land, you as an individual are responsible for what ever happens to you. The land owner is not responsible, even though you are on their private property. If you trespass and the Pa land owner wants to enforce the state trespass laws, he has that right. However this article by Joe Arnette is talking about only the loss of his covert habitat, which really is not his at all.

    Thornton,
    I agree with you sir I hate to see once open land to hunting, leased out to clubs who then put the land out of bounds for Pa hunters. Here in Pa these leases often claim more land than is really part of their lease. I actually had this happen to me while Grouse hunting on SGL 208.
    When I showed the actual boundary markers to these lease holders they tried to tell me I would have to leave anyway. I took out my mobile phone and called the PGC, and the lease holder immediately left. The PGC the next week sent a work crew out to officially remark the boundary of SGL 208. This lease hunting club is still upset with me for having the boundaries officially remarked, they can no longer keep hunters off that portion of the mountain. The next time they stop me from Grouse hunting, I will have them officially charged with interfering with my Grouse hunt.

    RGD/Dave
    Last edited by Ryman Gun Dog; March 17th, 2017 at 05:25 PM.
    Never worry about what others believe, walk in the way of the Lord.

  7. #7
    That boundary/marking issue does happen, rgd....someone, likely a local, removed the WIHA signs from a parcel in Kansas and hung some purple tires on the fence posts in the hopes of maintaining a honey hole.
    Naturally, we hunted it(had a Kansas flush, by the way) but I felt a bit like a criminal in the doing.
    A call to the game folks on Monday indicated it was indeed still in the program....the fella I talked to said to check the far fence as the miscreants normally do not remove those (signs).
    And yes, a couple (signs) were still in place when we returned.
    A Kansas truck slowed as I neared the road corner that return day.....he did not seem pleased as I lifted a rooster and waved a merry greeting.
    Last edited by thornton; March 17th, 2017 at 09:53 PM.
    Do not forget pumpkin!

  8. #8
    Eagle
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    thornton,
    The people doing this kind of law breaking are some pretty low down people, most of them know exactly what they are doing and they just do not give darn about the actual laws. One of my other pet peeves is hunters who follow other Grouse hunters, so they do not have to develop their own covert locations. These people along with the people who mark Grouse covert locations on their GPS locators and sell the location information are complete scum, many in fact are the exact same people. Last season it was so bad we had to keep using different vehicles to avoid these dregs of society. I sure do not consider them any kind sportsman.
    RGD/Dave
    Never worry about what others believe, walk in the way of the Lord.

  9. #9
    Oh, I suppose there could be some simple misunderstanding of boundaries as there could be a local dispute over, say, a farm in KS and then bad decisions follow.
    Often, compounded by the attitude adopted by each party.
    Kinda why finding out the true skinny and then giving a merry greeting is not a bad stance to take.
    Not sure that either situation should ever tie up a court system.....but, as I said, problems can get compounded by attitudes.


    Rgd, your history with the marketing and sale of timber cut information has long been noted on upland message boards.
    While I see that marketing and sale as small taters compared to a host of other actual negatives in the grouse woods, no one enjoys seeing "their" coverts on open land...accessed by others.
    Still, it happens, as secret seldom is.
    My kick mostly involves when the public access was once a component of tax breaks or the like and then Time or ownership changes permit the NT signage to go up.
    Otherwise, it's a pretty free country and we adjust as necessary...as uncomfortable or inconvenient as it may prove to be.


    I would agree that the folks who follow a hunter up a lane, into the woods, or who queue up in parking areas like they are at a Preserve can be annoying and will lead me to leave or move on by.
    But, each is somewhat common in certain areas today.....it may be from a silly hunter camaraderie idea or inexperience, I don't know.
    I will say that having a truck emblazoned with RGS stickers or dog training language just might be asking for some 'burghers, et al to come along for the ride.


    Good luck next season with your evasion efforts!
    Do not forget pumpkin!

  10. #10
    Eagle
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Fairport NY
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    204
    I, too, have seen a lot of "habitat loss", mainly from city folk coming in and buying up farms, and heavily posting the land. I had been welcomed by the previous landowners over the years, and even hunted with them on occasion. And the property is all turning into woodlots.

    But I suppose it's "progress" to some degree or other, and maybe us ol' farts are becoming dinosaurs.

    The "good ol' days" are rapidly disappearing, and now I do most of my shooting at clay "birds" and get more shots per day, and there are no bag limits, but the downside is that they are inedible (or maybe I need a better recipe).

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