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  1. #21
    As I recall, there were some methods of training detailed which I would not employ but yes, I have the book.

    Porter will be 1 next month, right now he is asleep on the couch.
    The blur has stilled.
    Do not forget pumpkin!

  2. #22
    Running big for my Gordon was not very far beyond gun range. And well within it in the grouse woods. She was paranoid about losing track of me.

    She was pretty mediocre as a bird dog. Also couldn't track cripples for crap--although my shorthairs might have spoiled me in that department. But she was fun to hunt with, mainly because it was obvious that she was having fun.

  3. #23
    Genetics certainly matter with any breed, as do individual attitudes developed or which come to light in any dog.
    My first dog was a GSP....it was also my last GSP.
    We all have varying experiences and, more importantly, different ideas on what we like to follow and what satisfies afield.
    Our experiences tho should never attempt to define beyond those experiences....nor influence beyond our cap brim, to me.
    Which was my suggestion to rgd.

    While Porter was only 6 mo. or less in the U.P. and a bit older in Kansas, he did have fun and at that age, fun in learning/experiencing all that is new goes a long way, again to me.
    He did wear an Astro and I was glad of it....simply to help monitor the fun that occurred out of my sight or hearing.
    He saw birds from woodcock to prairie chickens...and he started to learn that he can't catch 'em, as well.

    As Time, training, my own hopefully proper decisions and, especially, bird opportunities develop....I expect he will fulfill the over-flowing peck of bird-hunting genetics within him.
    As with any of my dogs, we grow along side each other...I hope.
    As with any of my dogs, I accept and respect who they become..as the ride is always too short.
    Last edited by thornton; March 20th, 2017 at 08:30 AM.
    Do not forget pumpkin!

  4. #24
    Eagle
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    NE MN
    Posts
    348
    RGD, I can readily agree with your assessment. My oldest and youngest brothers and I love to pheasant and grouse hunt. We rely on public and some private land. We had been blessed with some of the most wonderful, special private land in SW MN for years; at no cost to us other than to let the landowner know when we were arriving. When corn went through the roof and CRP sign-ups dwindled we lost almost all that private paradise to the plow. We were very saddened by the turn of events but also realized it wasn't our's and the owner had every right to do with it as he pleased. I truly wish I could afford a chunk of land down in pheasant country, but I'm at a stage of my life that it is no longer possible. So we'll hunt more public land and knock on doors where we see something that looks promising (and hope the landowner is actually there).
    "God and Soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before.
    The danger passed and all things righted, God is forgotten and the Soldier slighted."
    Rudyard Kipling

    You rush a miracle man, you get lousy miracles.

  5. #25
    MN, back when I gave some thought to buying my 100 acre parcel of pheasant heaven, land values were significantly lower than they are now. They've come down quite a bit in the last few years in pheasant country because the corn and soybean market has also declined a lot. But still about double what they were around the turn of the century.

  6. #26
    Eagle
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Endless Mountains of Pa
    Posts
    4,002
    Larry,
    I can sure understand the monetary end of passing on the purchase of the farm you liked to hunt on. I had to do something similar until my retirement kicked in also, the funds were just not there at the time I wanted them. However after I purchased my land here in Potter/Tioga I did have to deal with relatives of the owners and others who had been using my land, for everything from hunting to riding 4 wheelers. We initially installed the security system in the cabin area of our property for security reasons, and to see just how much our property was being used by other people, local and visiting. Especially when we were not at home. It turned out the people just down the lane and their extended family, were our biggest problem. These people it turned out were actually squatters, and not legal residence. After I retired we contacted the legal owners, and made him an offer on the land, which he accepted. It took an entire year to legally remove these squatters. Granted the purchase you passed on would have been a little different, but I can definitely understand why you passed on acquiring the land. However sometimes if you want your own piece of God's country you must pay for it and secure it.

    thornton,
    I have never been a field trailer, so your entire premise is way off base. However my experience level training and hunting with many different kinds of gun dogs is pretty large. Your innuendo again is more than just misguided, and your experience with gun dogs is rather limited to say the least. If you think that I step on another mans head by teaching the actual difference in gun dogs, you must have a pretty sour head. The reality is men pay me for my gun dog knowledge, and I will not mislead them about the different kinds of gun dog genetics, and especially how it matters when picking a companion gun dog, to hunt Grouse with.

    Larry again,
    Sorry you had a mediocre Gordon gun dog, it happens and I often tell the story about having to take the time to make Ripper my male Gordon, back into the instinctive wild Grouse dog he ended up being. He was not paranoid however, just abused. His genetic imprint was definitely not a good one for being used as a FT game dog, and both his original master and trainers tried to make him into one. It damaged the dog severely for a few years. Eventually he became one of the best natural companion Grouse dogs a man could ever wish to own. However he would urinate on a planted bird in split second, if a man happen to smell of pen raised birds, he would urinate on the man also. This particular Gordon was well above most average hunters/trainers pay grade as far as training was concerned, and certainly above most professional trainers pay grade also. Gordon dogs are not like most other hunting dog breeds, they can become paranoid, overly close working, and sulky, along with being to smart for their own good and very slow to mature and develop. However they can also become incredible Grouse dogs, who find and set more Grouse in day, than most other dog breeds can do in a weeks time. Both Jake, Mr Stewarts Heather Grouse dog in Scotland and Peat Dan Thomason's incredible male in Montana have pointed over 50 Grouse in one day, both dogs were like children playing as they accomplished the task. Gordon dogs are different, no doubt about it, I have been blessed with a fine female Gordon Grouse dog myself, along with a male who lived in another world, and have been proud to own both.

    MN Tonester,
    Sorry you lost one of the places you liked to hunt, it is getting harder and harder for men like us to find the actual owners of some of these properties. I wish you good luck as you knock on the doors, this same thing is now happening here in our mountains. A real shame, and definitely the passing of an era.


    RGD/Dave
    Last edited by Ryman Gun Dog; March 20th, 2017 at 12:14 PM.
    Never worry about what others believe, walk in the way of the Lord.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryman Gun Dog View Post
    ...I have never been a field trailer, so your entire premise is way off base. However my experience level training and hunting with many different kinds of gun dogs is pretty large. Your innuendo again is more than just misguided, and your experience with gun dogs is rather limited to say the least. If you think that I step on another mans head by teaching the actual difference in gun dogs, you must have a pretty sour head. The reality is men pay me for my gun dog knowledge, and I will not mislead them about the different kinds of gun dog genetics, and especially how it matters when picking a companion gun dog, to hunt Grouse with......
    "Step on another man's head"...nope, you step on another dog's head(read slower) and often, I'm afraid.
    You do darn well, rgd and have much you can share......so, there seems little need to try and make yourself taller in the sad manner you have chosen.
    Your own words.....being the guide of that fact.
    I do not forget.

    Foks pay for all manner of services.
    They have since before Hector was a pup.
    A wallet indicates little of true value, to me.

    Advising on a Public forum under the guise of expert can mislead and would be different than advice given around an actual ol' fire-pit with some brown liquor sloshing in a jelly jar.
    In that "expert" advice can be tainted by personal preference, get-backs or trying to pry open one of those wallets.
    One must sift advice well.
    Granted, the listener should be wise enough to sift but, often, it appears listeners can be swayed by image and BS thru inexperience.
    One can advise re a birddog and still have that advise fall short of the level of dissing you have long chosen....or, one can decide not to use inaccurate generalizations clearly meant to color and dissuade.

    I have no doubt that you have never been a FTer, rgd.
    I do question whether you ever tried FTing, rgd.
    Which is fine, FTing does not interest me beyond the good dogs that can result.
    Otherwise, the sport is too much about fitting in and waiting around....to me.

    Have a nice Spring.
    Do not forget pumpkin!

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by thornton View Post
    Which is fine, FTing does not interest me beyond the good dogs that can result.
    Otherwise, the sport is too much about fitting in and waiting around....to me.
    What I find field trialing to be, is a lot of training of dogs and horses and self reflection, in order to improve where you are. The actual trials are like the portion of the iceberg above water. All the rest is well away from any trial.

    Your point is fair that an actual trial involves a certain amount of waiting around. As far as fitting in,,, like most activities, some you meet become dear friends, others not so much.

    I will side with you that the dogs that result from field trails are very good dogs. The breeding and training effort certainly is not directed at being able to finish last.
    Give me a dog that will run and a horse that will walk

  9. #29
    Yep.....any fit is very likely more about myself than FTing or FTers.

    I suspect the same would apply to gymnastics, for me.
    Do not forget pumpkin!

  10. #30
    Eagle
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Endless Mountains of Pa
    Posts
    4,002
    thornton and Noell,
    It seems you actually believe the only dogs that are bred, are bred for FT purposes, unfortunately that is far from reality. In fact there are a heck of a lot more good dogs being bred and used as hunting dogs and working dogs than anything else. Finishing 1st or last depends on the work actually being tested, by any individual breed lines genetics and training. The Germans have a pretty good GVP repetitive testing program for Genetic tracking of actual hunting dogs. FT game dogs have their own testing program, and the two are not any where near the same. This is not stepping on another dogs head either, as some people seem to believe. Different dog lines are bred to accomplish different tasks, each refined genetically to become a master in their own world. When I advise hunters to purchase from a certain breed line, it is because the line is producing proven dogs for that particular kind work. Not because I do not like another mans dogs and want to step on their heads, the insecurity of this statement is plain foolish and arrogant. You may disagree with this professional method, however that does not mean you are correct in you assessment, in fact you are dead wrong.

    RGD/Dave
    Never worry about what others believe, walk in the way of the Lord.

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